Cam Girl Diaries Podcast Episode #63

The Best Advice From Our Guests

Host: Gary Gabagool

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Orvilina

Originally Featured in Episode #40

Segment: 0:00–1:43

If you’re wanting to get into cam modeling or sex work in general, be aware that this is very much a stigmatized industry.

You’re going to have a lot of people who have misconceptions about what your line of work is. At the end of the day, sex work is an umbrella term. There are so many different jobs that account for sex work, but people like to make up their own ideas, and they’re not willing to change them.

I feel as though, for example, I don’t know a thing about ice hockey, but I don’t claim to know anything about ice hockey. However, people who don’t know anything about sex work like to think they do, and you’re going to deal with these people all the time.

It can be absolutely infuriating.

One word of advice, though: if you’re a sensitive person who cares about the opinions of others, who’s worried about their reputation, and perhaps being seen in a negative light, getting into this kind of work is probably not the best idea for you.

You have to be very tough. You have to not care what other people think.

And if you’re worried about getting discovered, or you’re worried about family finding you and cutting you off, which is all a possibility, then I wouldn’t necessarily risk it.

Make sure you know exactly what you’re getting into before you sign up for that account, start streaming, and start selling content.

You really need to make sure that you weigh up the pros and cons, because once you start doing something like this, as I mentioned previously, as soon as you put your first piece of content out there, as soon as you start your first livestream, you are out there for good.

You’re going to be there for the long run.

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Kitty Kate

Originally Featured in Episodes #28 & #48

Segment: 1:43–7:30

The hard part for me to contend with is that sometimes, because my schedule is so free, I fuck around a lot.

I’m like, “Oh crap, it’s 10:30 p.m. and I’m still sitting in my pajamas.”

I’ve studied, cleaned my house a little bit, but I don’t feel sexy. I don’t want to log onto cam for four or five hours, and now I’ve got to do my hair and I’ve got to do my makeup.

I get lazy with it.

Even on days when you’re not doing the most, which I typically don’t do the most, you still have to get yourself into this mental state. And if you’re not, you can feel it, and your clients can feel it.

When I’m sitting there and I’ve had a rough day, I’m stressed out, or I’m just tired, and I’ve been cleaning my house all day, and maybe I got super stoned or something, I’m just not feeling it right now, but I’ve got to log on anyway, those are days I’m going to make less money.

So you have to really put yourself in an actor mentality.

Even if you’re not into it, you have to pretend to be into it. You’ve got to put on the big smiles and the sexy voice.

And even when the person you’re camming with is very, very much someone that you would not normally find attractive, you better find something to get you going and make those wheels turn.

And that can be hard.

Gary: I guess, yeah, because I never even thought of that. It would probably make it easier, especially with someone who’s not comfortable with this or anything, to think of it as an acting gig.

Think of it like you’re performing. Just think of yourself as an actress.

Kitty Kate: Absolutely.

And I got a coach. There is someone online, and she goes by Jade Malone. I think she’s Redhead Jade on social media, but she does these masterclasses for spicy content creators.

One of the biggest things that helped me when starting all this was that I’ve always been really big on education. I want to know a little bit before I jump in.

I got a coach and I was like, “What are the types of things that you do? How do you set boundaries for yourself? What do you do to get yourself in the mood? How do you keep yourself on schedule? What are some of the things that you do?”

Her number-one recommendation was, even if you’re fully yourself, like I am, to create a character.

She was like, “Down to the way that you say hello.”

This doesn’t have to be who you are in your everyday life. You can wake up and decide who you want to be today. Fit a niche and make yourself work.

She was like, “Pick three things about yourself that you love and kind of adapt to those.”

Maybe you have a very specific color. I really jump on the fact that I’m a student, and then I’ve got kind of that girl-next-door vibe that really works for me, so I play to that.

Some girls maybe are really spicy and they’ve got that beautiful, sultry look, so you’re going to want to do something a little bit more intense.

Find something that caters to you and sort of build a life around that.

Where were you born? What did you do? What are your friends like? What do you like to do for fun?

This doesn’t have to be the person that you are every day.

A lot of the time, I think it helps people to be outside of themselves for this. Create a persona. Be an actress. Be an actor. Get yourself in the headspace.

If you’re not typically the type of person who would do online sex work, then create a character that is the type of person who would do that and fit that persona.

Have fun with it.

Before you know it, you’ve got this whole alter ego going on.

A lot of the time, it really works. I know girls online who are night and day from their personality. You would never guess.

And on the same regard, someone might be the girl next door, but people come online and they’re like, “Holy shit, you can get really kinky.”

I’m like, yeah. You can’t always just stick to your niches. You can get a little dirty.

It’s important to really analyze your model. Look at the comments. Look at who they are.

A lot of the time we take our bios fairly seriously and we write some stuff to give you a little bit of input about us. Take that to heart.

If we’re telling you that we’re sultry and we’re intimate, you might want to find out why.

Gary: Right. Yeah, no, that’s great advice. Especially because you can play a character. It’s fun.

Kitty Kate: Exactly. It’s fun. It can evolve. There’s no rules. You can evolve to wherever you want to be.

Online, Katie is very boisterous. I laugh a lot. I like jokes. I like having conversations.

Me every day? I would much prefer not to know a single one of my neighbors’ names. If you try to talk to me when I’m out in public, I’m going to be like, “Go away. Six feet, please.”

I don’t want anything to do with other humans outside of the realm of camming.

But it’s really fun when I get to come in and all of a sudden I’m bubbly and friendly. I’m the type of person who wants to know more about you and wants to talk to people.

I get to sort of play that role, and then in my everyday life I can just be my normal self.

Gary: Yeah, it’s like an escape, really.

Kitty Kate: Exactly.

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Minnie St. Claire

Originally Featured in Episode #35

Segment: 7:31–15:53

Gary: So what platforms do you use?

Minnie St. Claire: I work Streamate, Flirt4Free, I’mLive, Cams.com. Cams.com is also called StreamRay.

I joined other websites like MyFreeCams, CamSoda, Cam4, but I’ve always seemed to make money on premium, private-based cam sites.

That’s just where I flourish.

Cams.com was my first website where I became a top performer on that page. I went back in the Internet Wayback Machine to find my screenshots of me being a cam model.

When I talk to Liz over at Streamate, she’s all excited about my account being one of the first accounts.

And Flirt4Free, I just have to rank up. I just have to hustle, make my money, make my hours, build my customers, build my regulars.

I really like the way Flirt4Free is set up.

They have credit levels, so each credit level gives you a certain badge on your profile. Once you earn that badge on your Flirt4Free Pro profile, you don’t get demoted. You’re always promoted.

I really like that system.

Right now, Flirt4Free is doing their Flirt Summit conference where they rent out a resort or a travel location for all of their cam models, and they recognize all of their cam models.

For a company that recognizes their models internally as a company, Flirt4Free does it.

For a lot of the other companies, it’s externally, like ad events such as Bucharest Summit, Xbiz Summit, Why Not Cam, Community, those industry events.

That’s where I would like to be able to travel.

Like I said, I really like Flirt4Free. Flirt4Free has a really nice way of building their brand.

But I work for cam sites that all have a style of premium-based chats where there’s free chat, then I entice the customers to go to private chat.

Now we have Lovense toys connected to the websites and other Bluetooth tip-activated toys connected to the website.

Some of them I can upload videos for video on demand or subscription sites.

Streamate has this new thing they’re trying to roll out where it’s a subscription site on the live cam, and then there’s pay-per-view content.

Right now, all these cam sites are trying to be a one-stop shop for customers, where all your content is on one platform.

For the four websites that I work, they each have a feature that I really, really like.

I’mLive has really great prizes at the end of the pay period.

One year they gave away cameras. They gave away the Sony ZV-1 camera. They gave away the Canon 200D camera. Then they gave away Louis Vuitton shopping bags, and they gave away iPhones.

Almost every year they give away an iPhone.

And that’s it. There aren’t a lot of things you need to do on a webcam site except be there, be available, and build a strong relationship with the customers where they feel like you’re listening to them.

A key thing about customers on websites is they want to know that you’re listening to them and paying attention to them.

That’s the reason why they stay. They stick around.

Honestly, the whole sexual aspect of webcamming is only really six minutes.

It truly is. It’s six minutes, and then both of you are finished.

And then what?

Six minutes at five dollars a minute isn’t a whole lot of time. That’s not a lot of money when you really do the math.

It’s six or seven minutes.

I try to get my customers to stay in the room for 15 minutes or longer. To do that, it’s something else we’re talking about. It’s something else we’re doing. There’s another connection that’s happening.

And with private premium-based sites, I have the opportunity of doing that.

When they go into private chat, I’m not like, “I need a minute person, three minutes or less.”

I’m not talking to anybody who’s three minutes or less.

It’s longer.

What To Do When Your Room Is Slow

Gary: What do you do while you’re live on cam? How do you stay occupied when it’s slow?

Minnie St. Claire: Here’s the thing. When it’s slow, there’s always somebody watching you on camera.

They may not be logged in. Some websites have it where they can hover over your room and show a little clip of your room live when you’re on camera.

Just think somebody is watching you.

Sometimes, yes, I have music in the background. Sometimes I have a show that I’m watching with subtitles, but I know there’s somebody watching me.

I even sometimes try to say, “If you’re watching me and you’re not logged in, I invite you to log in and have a conversation with me while I’m online.”

When you’re online, just think there’s somebody watching you all the time.

It’s just easier.

If it’s slow for 30 minutes, I may log off and come back, depending on the website. Depending on which website I’m working, I may have to log off, take a break, take a stretch, walk around, and then come back.

But when I’m online and it’s slow, I just think there’s somebody in the room all the time.

I try to make sure that my room is directing people to either join and sign up or to log in and have a conversation with me.

And I also sometimes talk to the freeloaders in my room.

That’s what they’re there for. They build conversation in your room.

If you’re not able to converse with the freeloaders in your room, how are you supposed to convert customers to join the website and spend money on you?

Some of the websites have part of your power score, your cam score, based on how well you can convert customers from a free customer, a freeloader customer, a gray customer, into a spending member customer.

And you learn how to do that when it’s slow.

If it’s slow online for more than 30 minutes, I will log off and then come back, or I’ll switch sites.

This is also why it’s good to have multiple different sites and multiple different platforms.

It doesn’t really matter what website you’re broadcasting live on. Eventually every website goes slow sometimes.

Sometimes they even go slow at the exact same time.

When I’m live online, I talk to my customers. I make sure everyone knows I’m live. I’m really here.

One time I used to pick my nose so they knew I was really there.

Or I would eat Kraft Dinner, the mac and cheese out of a box, so they knew I was really there. I was really a person right there in front of them.

It’s just making sure that the room knows you’re here.

You’re here to have a conversation. You’re here to have fun.

Did you look at my pictures? Did you look at my videos? Did you join and get the free credits for signing up as a brand-new member?

You’re constantly promoting and directing them to something on the website that gets them to do an action, whether it’s to type, take you private, tip your toy, or join your fan club.

Some websites let you promote your social media, depending on what the rules are.

The rules are very important.

You have to be the tour guide and director of the website while you’re online.

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Paislee Haze

Originally Featured in Episode #29

Segment: 15:54–19:22

Gary: Some of these people have thousands of people in there. How do you manage a chat like that?

Paislee Haze: I’m going to be honest. The one time I had about 1,500 people in the room, I had two other people on cam with me.

I don’t get that many people by myself.

When I first started five years ago, I could have 200 to 300 people. Now it’s kind of slowed down, so I would say I average about 100 people in the room.

Gary: That’s still a lot of people.

Paislee Haze: Yeah, but honestly, it doesn’t matter.

You can have 30 people in your room, but if you have the right tippers, that really, really makes your stream go well.

Gary: What do you focus on in the chat? If there’s 100 people in a room, are you focusing on the tippers or everyone?

Paislee Haze: I’ve turned Grays into tippers.

Some girls just totally ignore Grays. There are no set rules to what you can do, but at the same time, I feel like I’ve turned Grays into tippers, and I think I’m pretty good at doing that.

I get on there and I talk. I greet people as they come in. Who’s having conversations with me? Just go from there.

Typically, somebody will want to take me private or tip me for something.

They’re like, “Oh, Paislee, you’re so cool.”

I’m like, “Okay, let’s have some fun then.”

Gary: How do you manage your private messages?

Paislee Haze: If they have a quick question, I definitely respond for free.

If they want to have a private conversation, I encourage them to type in public chat because it keeps the flow of the room going.

If they insist on having a private conversation, I charge 350 tokens for about 10 minutes of my time chatting with them.

Gary: So if they’re not tipping you, you want to keep them in the regular chat?

Paislee Haze: Yeah. You want the flow of the room to go.

Even if some people aren’t tipping you, you want people in there talking. You don’t want to sit there bored.

At the end of the day, I feel like you’d rather have people in there talking, so when other guys come in, they see you being engaging and things of that sort.

Gary: Right. Because I notice on Chaturbate, for instance, some girls are completely on their phone.

I’m assuming they’re in private messages, so I always wonder, are they private messaging for free, or are they getting tipped? Because they’re ignoring the rest of the room.

Paislee Haze: They could be doing several things. They could just be scrolling Instagram.

Don’t get me wrong, some girls do stream for five or six hours, so we’re human. You’re going to pick up your phone.

The key is to pick it up quickly.

Maybe stand up and shake your ass or something while you send a few little text messages, then put your phone back down and stay focused.

I play my music from my phone sometimes, so I let them know, “Oh, I’m finding something for us to listen to on YouTube.”

That way they are aware of what I’m doing.

I’m not ignoring you. I’m just trying to pick out some cool music for us.

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Tip Menu Ideas

No Guest Segment

Segment: 19:23–24:08

Gary: I’m going to put a list right here of the things that I put in my tip menu.

I have a pretty long list because I like having a lot of options for whoever comes into my room.

Let’s take a look at her list.

For those that are listening, she has:

• Cum tax
• Cheers / a drink
• Feet flash
• Twerk
• Dance
• Spanks
• Squats
• Song request
• Put on heels
• Booty flash
• Boob flash
• Nipple clamps
• Vag flash
• Doggy flash
• Put on handcuffs
• Lotion / oil
• Ice on nipples
• Naked
• Take a shot
• Snapchat / Instagram
• Cum denial
• Slave

Those all seem like your standard things.

Definitely try all of them, but I would also say try to throw in some shit that not a lot of other girls are doing.

Maybe a dirty game show, some kind of game, or something to keep people going.

Every single stream can be different.

One night everyone could want to do spanks. The next night everyone could want to see me do a ton of squats.

I really don’t know, and it’s up to them, which keeps it a little bit more fun.

You can also create tips that are just compliments.

For example:

100 tokens: “I’m a pretty girl”

They’ll send 100 tokens and leave a note that says, “Pretty girl, you’re cute.”

200 tokens: “Nice butt”

200 tokens: “Nice titties”

400 tokens: “I love your hair”

30 tokens: “I love your smile”

50 tokens: “I love your lips”

1,000 tokens: “Just because you love me”

500 tokens: “Call me princess”

600 tokens: “I’m a queen”

700 tokens: “Goddess”

10,000 tokens: “Be mine”

Nobody’s done that one yet.

I’m not surprised.

Those are the only tip menus that I currently have. I need to create more.

I have so much fun making them, and I’m always so flattered when people go on there and purchase things off of there.

You guys can literally do anything.

Some girls do jumping jacks. My boobs are way too big for that.

Squats? I don’t know.

You can get as creative as you want, and you can set your prices however you want to.

Gary: I just thought of one.

For older girls, or anyone, I don’t fucking know, but remember the thing in that Jim Carrey movie, Ace Ventura, where he talks with his butt?

You could do one of those.

Talk with your butt.

You’d have to use your own voice, I guess, but talk with your butt.

Look up the scene, or maybe I’ll throw it in here so you know what I’m talking about.

Some guys might be into that.

Who knows?

Just keep that in mind when you’re creating your tip menu.

Have as much fun as you possibly can.

I’d love to hear what you guys have on your tip menu.

What’s your favorite tip menu item or command that you have?

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Orvilina

Originally Featured in Episode #40

Segment: 24:08–31:28

Orvilina: I would say the most important piece of advice in this video is familiarizing yourself with the Code of Conduct so you don’t get into any trouble.

If you break one of the rules, you could have your account suspended or even permanently taken down.

This is really important.

I noticed a lot of new cam models forget to look into this, and then they end up making a really big mistake.

There’s no way out of it because once your account is taken down, you’re not going to be able to make a new one on the site with the ID that you have registered.

When you start as a new cam model, you will get the new-account tag, which means it’s going to attract a ton of clients.

You’ll be speaking to so many people, and some of these people don’t have the best intentions.

Some of them are aware that you’re new. They might be under the impression that you don’t know your stuff, even if you do.

Even if you’ve cammed for other sites and you’re experienced, they might try and get you to break the Code of Conduct by asking you to do things that they themselves know aren’t allowed on the site.

Make sure you’re aware of this.

As soon as somebody asks you for something that you’re not able to do, don’t be afraid to block them.

Don’t be afraid to report them.

As soon as their account is taken down, that’s one less person that other models and yourself are going to have to deal with.

So really take this into consideration.

Make sure you know your stuff before you cam.

That way you won’t have to worry. You won’t be thinking, “Wait a second, can I say yes to this request? Is this allowed?”

You’ll already know.

You won’t have to think twice. You’ll just know whether to say, “Yes, I can do this,” or block and report.

For me, something that took a while to learn but really helped me out in terms of my cam mindset is to be picky with clientele.

That means I don’t accept everybody’s session.

Somebody comes into my room and they say, “Can I do this with you?”

If I’m not in the mood, I’ll simply say, “I’m afraid I’m not in the mood to do this today. However, I might be in the mood tomorrow.”

Something like that.

That way it gives you more control.

You’re not wasting your energy on things that you really don’t feel like doing.

I think a lot of people might disagree with me on this. They might say, “Well, money is money, and you should be trying to get as many sessions as possible.”

Yeah, I understand.

I used to have this very same mindset.

But I feel as though if you do go about doing that, and if you’re jumping through hoops to please people, you’re at risk of burning out quicker.

If you care about the longevity of your livestream and doing this again and again, if this is your main job, consider keeping your energy and only giving it to those who treat you with respect.

Think about your energy.

Think about your energy being a full cup of water.

You only have X amount.

If you waste that water, if you take a sip, that’s energy spent.

If you take a sip every time you have a session with a client that doesn’t treat you with respect, a client that doesn’t observe your boundaries, you’re wasting energy on the wrong kind of people.

For me, finding the right clientele and finding the right people to work with is about weeding out the ones I don’t want.

I’m not afraid to block somebody that calls me “baby” instead of “Mistress.”

I’m not afraid to block somebody that seems kind of rude.

I’m not going to fuck back with people like this.

Yeah, I might be losing a potential customer.

I understand this.

But that’s not a customer I want.

That’s not money I want.

Not all money is good money.

So make sure you are prioritizing your own mental health.

Make sure you’re prioritizing your energy so that you can cater to the people who are decent.

That way, I feel as though being a cam model is a lot more manageable.

It’s something that you can keep doing.

I think it’s really easy to get a bad impression of it if you’re putting yourself through things that you don’t feel comfortable doing.

A lot of people do it, especially people who are new to it.

Like myself, I didn’t realize I could be picky.

I think a lot of people worry, “Oh, if I don’t do this, what if this person gives me a one-star rating?”

Well, if you aren’t willing to do something that you’re not comfortable with, and if you state this and somebody gives you a one-star rating anyway, contact the cam site you’re on.

Tell them the situation.

They will have that removed.

So just be fully aware that that’s in place.

Maybe that gives you a bit of security.

I wish I knew that in the beginning because I feel as though it’s very easy to think, “Okay, I’ll just do this one time.”

You don’t want to do it, but they’re asking for it.

You feel like saying no isn’t an option.

And saying no is always an option.

What I’ve started doing is, if I’m doing a session with somebody and it begins okay, but then they start saying things that I don’t like, or they start to disrespect me, I block them mid-session.

That’s not something I’m willing to continue.

And even if you block them mid-session, you’re paid up until the point of blocking, which is brilliant.

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Lilly Laclare

Featured Across Multiple Episodes

Segment: 31:29–34:42

Gary: Do you ever get weirdos DMing you and getting obsessed with you, wanting you to do weird shit, and they don’t even fucking pay you?

Lilly Laclare: At the very beginning, when I really didn’t understand how this worked, I didn’t realize I didn’t have to be friendly to these people.

At the end of the day, it is a business.

If someone’s just trying to troll me or trying to get shit for free, it’s very okay for me to just delete.

I’m so good at that now.

But back in the early days, I’ve only been doing it for about a year, it was a little bit more about trying to be friendly and stuff like that.

I wasted a lot of time on Twitter and Instagram.

Gary: Yeah, I hear that a lot.

I hear that a lot from girls starting out.

Some just don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. Some think they’re hurting a potential sale.

Lilly Laclare: Yes.

Gary: That’s why I encourage people to seek out better platforms so that you don’t have to deal with that.

Lilly Laclare: Yeah, because you can’t fucking deal with that shit all the time.

Gary: I’m sure you get tons of those.

Lilly Laclare: Yeah.

Don’t even think twice about it.

Just delete.

Especially if they’re sending dick pics right away.

Delete.

Don’t even be like, “Oh, hey hun, thanks for the snap of your dick, but you know, I kind of do this for a living.”

No.

Gary: Right.

So you’ve got to man up. Don’t deal with that shit.

It’s not worth it.

Lilly Laclare: Exactly.

Gary: Have you ever had one that went anywhere?

Lilly Laclare: Never.

Gary: Exactly.

Hopefully.

Because that’s something I hear a lot.

They get stuck on that and they don’t know how to not do it.

You just got to fucking grow some balls and just do it.

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Kitty Kate

Originally Featured in Episodes #28 & #48

Segment: 34:43–End

Kitty Kate: My heart broke for the one girl. I forget her name.

She said she’d fallen for those scams, the sugar daddy scam.

That broke my heart because it sounds like a dream.

“Whoa, $5,000 a month for just being little old me?”

It sounds like a dream.

But it’s like, never in the history of ever will that be a reality.

Nobody’s hitting up girls on Instagram or Twitter doing that.

If someone has $5,000 to drop on a girl a month, they’re going to seek her out directly.

Gary: Exactly.

Kitty Kate: That’s the thing.

It sounds too good to be true, but you’re like, “What if it is true? I’ve got to…”

Gary: Yeah.

I get hit up with fucking sugar daddies.

I’m like, “I’m not a fucking cam girl. Stop it.”

Maybe if it’s real…

Kitty Kate: And the financial domination scams.

That’s a newer one for me.

The people that are like, “Yeah, I want to do a financial domination session with you. What’s your banking information so I can send it right to your bank account?”

And it’s like, “No hassle? Okay, stranger on the internet. I’m going to give you my banking information?”

Gary: Right.

Kitty Kate: But there are so many young girls on Twitter doing the financial domination thing.

I have a feeling that’s going to be the next big scam because these girls are young and naive.

That’s how everyone starts.

I feel so bad, especially for that one girl.

She had actually fallen for it.

That just hurt my heart so bad.

That’s why I’d like to get the word out about that kind of shit because it’s everywhere.

And not only that, there are so many scams.

But agencies, yes.

Agencies are a fucking scam.

Gary: Now, I was talking to Britney last night about the agency she’s with, and it doesn’t sound like a scam, but I haven’t looked into it, so I don’t want to say anything about it.

But every fucking thing I’ve seen about agencies are scams.

They do absolutely nothing for you, but you’ve got to give them money.

Kitty Kate: Yeah.

I have extremely bad ADD, like extremely bad, and it definitely hinders my business.

But never once have I had to have anybody do anything for me on here.

And I’ve made well over a living income for the year that I’ve been doing this.

So I do encourage you to do more research.

Listen to YouTube videos or shoot your shot and reach out to some girls.

A lot of girls are going to be like, “Fuck you. Learn it on your own.”

You might find someone like me who will be like, “Yeah, I’m going to give you some pointers,” because I wish someone was giving me pointers.

You know what I mean?

Gary: Yeah.

It’s hard out there.

It’s the mean streets.

Kitty Kate: This is a fucking ghetto. You’ve got to watch your back.

Gary: Well, there are horrible stories too.

I’ve had a guy who I had to cut off because he was coming to me and finally admitted that he was spending every penny of all his paychecks on tokens and chat sessions with me.

I only found out one day because our session ended and he messaged me.

He was like, “Hold on, I’m going to be right back.”

He said, “I have to go and get another credit card so I can upload points. I’ve gone into the negative on this account.”

And I was like, “Wait a minute. Whoa.”

I told him, “Dude, I really appreciate time with you, but if you’re putting yourself in a financial situation, then we shouldn’t be having this time together.”

I said, “I think it’s for your own benefit if I go ahead and block you.”

I don’t want to be able to sleep at night knowing that you’re constantly spending every dollar you have, that you’re not able to pay your bills, and you’re not able to live your life because you’re spending all this money on me.

Kitty Kate: I mean, it’s better than smoking crack, but it’s equal to gambling, though.

Gary: Exactly.

I’m like, I think about that a lot.

There was, and I don’t remember what the family’s name was, but it was another podcast I was listening to, a true crime story.

It was about a cam girl, and this guy was obsessing over her to the point where he had taken his family’s credit cards and put his family into debt.

It was big money.

He was committing fraud.

He went to prison and then got out.

His family had reached out to this girl and were basically saying, “Please, if you see him again, just don’t interact with him. Please block him.”

He ended up killing his entire family over this cam girl.

Kitty Kate: That’s fucking horrible.

Gary: Yeah.

So I always think about that.

And the inner social worker in me, when I sense there’s too much desperation, and maybe this is an addiction or a problem for someone, I’m all into having fun.

But I don’t want to send you into a downward spiral or a rabbit hole.

If I start sensing that, I’m like, “It’s in my best interest and it’s in your best interest if we just don’t.”

It doesn’t create a good mental space for me as someone who has a history with social work because now I want to fix you.

That’s going to move our relationship to a different space.

And I don’t want that.

That’s not my problem.

That’s not my fish to fry.

I want you to get a really, really good therapist.

That’s not me.

Good luck. May the Force be with you, and may the odds be ever in your favor.

Kitty Kate: Yeah.

That’s no fun.

It’s no fun watching other people suffer, especially being a part of it.

Gary: Exactly.

So I think it’s important for us to think about the exploitation from both ends.

Just as much as I hate that there’s a chance that my videos are being posted on some of these crazy websites, I also hate the idea of some dude spending every last dollar.

I’d rather just show you my tits for free for five minutes than have you spend every penny that you have on me and then you can’t get food for the week or your electricity is going to get cut off.

Kitty Kate: Yeah.

That’s mental.

That happens a lot.

It’s something that I think other models should be aware of.

There are people out here who have partners that don’t know that they’re on these sites and don’t understand why these charges are happening.

This type of thing has ended marriages.

I’ve had men call me with their wives sleeping in the background, and they’re trying to show me their sleeping wife.

I’m like, “No. This is weird. You’ve got to go. You gotta go.”

When people are getting hurt, which does happen, it’s so easy on these sites, especially when you’re new and you’re just starting out and trying to navigate and get your footing.

People are coming in, and it’s a very easy industry to just have exploitation take over.

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Episode #63 Outro

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